Writers Don't Listen
When you ask an author to give feedback on something you’ve written they might shy away. They'll say “everyone writes differently,” and “you have to find your own way.” Or, they'll say they don't have time to read your material. These are all very good reasons...But it’s not why most authors don't give feedback.
It's because they know you won't listen.
Many times when people ask for feedback what they really want is encouragement. When less-than-glowing feedback is given, the critiqued will defend their work.
The problem is that we know writing fiction is not like solving a math problem. There are no objective answers. So when a person gives us their subjective advice, we know it’s subject to interpretation...and all too often this translates into ignoring the bad news that something needs fixing.
And it's not just beginning writers.
It’s professionals, too.
Heck, even me.
When I went to the Clarion West Writers Workshop, I thought I knew I was doing. To a large extent, I did...but that didn't mean I didn't have light-years of room for improvement.
So when two professional editors critiqued my work and said they were very worried about the extent of my characterization (the lack thereof, specifically), I stopped listening.
What did they know? I had already published a novel! I didn't need extensive characterization. My characters were developed through their actions.
(Please don’t trip over my hubris and naiveté here)
This was internalized justification for a real weakness of mine. I wished I had listened, and hadn't taken several years to reach the same conclusion and take steps to fix it. It could have saved some real agony.
This is one of the conundrums of being a writer. You have to step away from your work and be objective.
You at least have to listen when people give you feedback. A good start is to find a trusted reader and train them to give you the feedback you want and need (see my older posts about that here and here).
Ultimately it's up to you to remain open to the possibility that your writing isn’t perfect yet.
And with a little luck, and humility, we’ll all become better writers.
posted by Eric Nylund at 7:14 AM
20 Comments:
Which ultimately is our goal, to become better writers. Thanks for taking the time to do your blog, I've enjoyed it for years now. :-)
Very True. But sometimes that Critique can also make you put more effort into what your doing and makes you try to avoid that mistake.
I couldn't imagine thinking there's a definitive end to how much one person can learn about their skill. I can imagine someone not wanting to be reaffirmed of their self perceived lack of skill and over compensating, though. I can remember being that person when I was a teenager. Now the problem I run into is wondering if the feedback was honest and critical enough. *laughs* Still, I couldn't imagine ever thinking I know all there is to know about writing. Evolution doesn't exactly stop.
I guess it all requires faith, because a gut feeling may only get you so far when you reflect on someone's critique of you. I know I've had to adopt that mindset a few times. You're never going to please anyone as well, but it seems there's always room to grow and learn. I would want my reviewers to be brutally honest; otherwise, what could possibly be accomplished?
I had this happen once, and it was when I took a break from writing. Which, as we spoke about before, is never a good thing.
The best way to constantly remind yourself that there is room for improvement is find people who you know are great writers (or at least better than yourself). I've done this for the last two years, and even when I think I've written a masterpiece, I can easily look around and say "wow, I wish I could write like that."
There's no better inspiration. For me, at least.
First of all, I'm really excited to have found your blog! I'm a long time fan (since the late 1990's).
Secondly, I'm attending Clarion West this summer, and this is a good reminder for me to remember to listen, and listen hard, to what the other Clarionites and the instructors tell me.
-- Maggie Lance
Yup.
Oh, and I'm a new fan. :)
Well, Mr. Nylund, i'm gonna be blunt about this. i'm not surprised those editors mentioned you had to work on characterisation.
The major trouble I had reading ghosts of onyx was that there were so many Spartans but I could hardly ever single out any of them in my mind, apart from Kurt.
I also think the best mindset to have when writing is to pretend you were writing for the dumbest lamest readers in the world. That way your work becomes easier to read. But I noticed Mr. Nylund, that you often try to show off some complex and un-necessary writing skills, and even academic prowess, which I deem very un-necessary if you wanted a wider array of fans.
And there are hardly ever enough detail in your action scenes.
I'm sorry if you find my posting this on your blog offensive, but i've posted this with a positive intention.
It's only natural for us to dislike it when our work gets overly critiqued.
But I'll be ready for such kind of critique when my book finally hits the limelight june/july. INVADER BY U.COLLINS OKONKWO
I find Eric's writing style almost perfect in contrast to other, overly-descriptive writers.
How could I say that the action scenes in Ghosts of Onyx - or any of the other Halo novels, for that matter - are poorly detailed? On the contrary, Eric has established a very easy-to-understand, and yet deeply descriptive style which sets the reader in the skin of the characters.
Talking about characters, I disagree with that statement too. Eric isn't concentrating on only _one_ character, although it is the way it should be. In my opinion, he never left out any of his other characters or misused them. Admiral Whitcomb, Dr. Halsey, Kelly, Haverson, Locklear and the other Spartans have been almost equally characterized.
Anyway, that's my own 2 cents.
Thing about the HALO-verse is that there are so many characters, and they are spread over vast distances and have their own timelines in the story arc. I think that Eric did a great job of the balancing act there--portraying each character in an interesting way. Furthermore, there is so much going on in HALO to begin with plotwise that I actually admire his work in HALO. Writing for such a massive story is no easy feat.
If you want to see more of his skills as it applies to characterization, I would recommend the Signal books. "Signal to Noise" was actually the first novel [that I've ever read] with that amount of character depth, and I had been reading sci-fi and various other genre novels for a few years prior to scoping out that book.
And I agree with unsc trooper. IMO, Eric's style is more dynamic compared to others that I've read. Meaning, he can be descriptive and technical and geeky when the story needs to be, and then it can be a simple and easy read at other times as well. It definitely benefits a writer, a sci-fi writer at that, to have technical college degrees under their belt. I think Eric has incredible balance in virtually all aspects of his writing. In fact, that is the only reason that the HALO novels grew on me. When I first read The Fall of Reach, I was blown away. About 50 pages into it, and I couldn't stop reading. The truly great thing about his work in the HALO novels, is that they weren't _too_ HALO. There was balance; it wasn't reliving the game or anything. And the answers he gave to even the smallest of ambiguities throughout the HALO-verse were crucial and spot on, especially the little technical details. TFoR was the only novel that I've ever read more than twice.
Well, I'll stop here. To Eric, thanks again for all the priceless advice you give!
-Jeff
It speaks volumes to Eric's skill that after years of having this blog, he's just now getting his first troll. I also have some respect for someone who has the cojones to insult a wonderful author, insult the average reader's intelligence, and THEN advertise their own book.
That being said, we are all entitled to our own opinions and interpretations of artistic endeavors. I like Eric's writing style. I have no issue telling one person from the next. Plus, his technobabble is handled in such a way that I don't feel like I'm at a seminar where I'm the only one not wearing a pocket protector and about to get killed because of it. I like his action just fine. Especially in books, action can easily turn into a long list of maneuvers and counter maneuvers that just gets way too boring. I don't have that issue when I read Eric's works.
The concept of writing with the belief that the audience is potentially moronic is just insulting beyond words. I'll be the first to admit I'm nowhere near a rocket scientist, but that doesn't mean I'm stupid. It also doesn't mean I want to be treated like I'm stupid. I may not understand why something works in finite detail, but I can understand why it's there and I can generally grasp what it means when a certain part goes to shit on it. Even when writing kid books it's bad form to write to them like they're idiots.
Also, I don't think Eric is showing off when he writes. I don't think he sits at his computer going, "Look at how good I conjugated that verb, bitches! Bow to me! Now!" He just writes well. It's kind of sad that good writing is so offensive. Personally, I like it. But, that's just my opinion as I am entitled to it. ;o)
I am new here. I arrived via the recommendation of a trusted friend. I have not been disappointed.
Regarding the troll (I love that word), make an exception to your own advice and don’t listen to it. :)
I've tried to do the opposite. Based on feedback from three different agents, I'm in the middle of major revisions on my MS.
Love your books.
Sorry for not jumping in sooner. The copyedited version of MORTAL COILS arrived and I’ve been heads down turning that around. Amazingly, I still enjoy reading this novel! A good sign or a major delusion, I’m not sure. I think I’ll go with “good.”
Scott, Masterchieff117, Nikoda, EMF, jamez, UNSCTrooper--all great comments. Appreciate the shared perspectives.
Electric—going to CW? I’ll try to get to one of those weekend CW gatherings to say hi.
Howdy reenie, glad you stopped by.
Ugochukwu—not much to comment on here other than to paraphrase Rhet Butler (movie version) saying to Mr. Hamilton: (with raised eyebrow) “I apologize again for all my shortcomings, sir.”
The brad—good luck with your MS!
Indeed I am. That would be wonderful if you could make it would be great if you could make it over :).
-- Maggie
I have to say I too love your writing. I'm sorry to say I sometimes find myself emulating it and trying to fix it (I can't stand it when something I'm writing sounds too familiar to something I've read). The only gripe I have with it is what I heard from my brother in the Halo books. He says you like to use the same verb when describing the Jackhammer missile. Jackknifed is a pretty awesome verb though
I wanted to say that I have thoroughly enjoyed your Halo installments, although I really need to read something else of yours.. :) I have taken to writing myself and more recently began forcing myself to outline. I can definitely see the benefit and thank you for your blog comments concerning it.
I disagree with the comments concerning your characters. I have latched onto many within the expansion you have created (most notably Kelly) and as a bonus it has really made the games more enjoyable.
I hope that you are given the opportunity to write more Halo story lines in the future (a reunion of John and Kelly would be nice.. hmmm), although it seems at this point that space battles may be few and far between, which is something that I really enjoyed reading about.
zomg
that's exactly what i'm like! :D
very good, now i know i'm not too stubborn!
At least I know I'm not alone. ;)
A writer's style is, after all, the particular set of mistakes that particular writer regularly makes. It's impossible to write to everyone's tastes all the time. All a writer can do is write to their own tastes, and, as Eric admonishes, listen to the readers/critiquers and see if things are coming across as intended.
I was just recently involved in another discussion mirroring Eric's post. Some people write for ego, and don't want to listen to criticism. Professional writers are those who have listened, ego or not, and know a thing or two. It's important when running a workshop to understand which of your students are there to listen and learn, and which just want their ego stroked. It saves everyone a lot of time and pain.
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